Design Your Organisation for an AI Driven Future - Omar Morales Microsoft - OrgDev Episode 93

What does organisation development look like when AI, complexity and constant transformation become the norm rather than the exception?

In this episode of the OrgDev Podcast, we’re joined by Omar Morales, Head of Organisation Development at Microsoft, to explore how organisations design for adaptability, leadership resilience, and sustained performance in fast-moving environments. Drawing on nearly two decades of global experience across organisation development, HR strategy and transformation, Omar shares practical insight on operating model design, leadership team effectiveness, systems thinking, and building OD capability at scale.

If you’re working in organisation development, HR, leadership, or organisational transformation - particularly in the context of AI and evolving business models - this conversation offers grounded perspectives on how to translate strategy into action while keeping people, performance and organisational effectiveness connected.

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About Us

We’re Dani and Garin – Organisation Development (OD) practitioners who help leaders and people professionals tackle the messiness of organisational life. We focus on building leadership capability, strengthening team effectiveness, and designing practical, systemic development programmes that help you deliver on your team and organisational goals. We also offer coaching to support individual growth and change.

Find out more at www.distinction.live

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Transcript

(00:00) Hi and welcome to the org dev podcast. So when the pressure is on for organizations to speed up and transform, what does it take to keep your people connected, motivated, and willing to go on the journey? What do we need to do to design our organizations differently when AI is changing how the work gets done? Today, we're absolutely delighted to be joined from New York by Omar Morales, a leading practitioner in his field.

(00:25) Amongst his many roles, Omar is global head of organization development at Microsoft. Omar's route into OD came after a distinguished career in HR business partnership with senior roles organizations including Proctor and Gamble, Direct TV and GitHub. His journey has taken him from business partnering into organization development, organization design, transformation and culture.

(00:46) Alongside his corporate leadership, Omar makes a significant contribution to the OD field through research, teaching and board roles, helping to shape thinking on organizational effectiveness and the future of work. He's a fellow of the 12th cohort of the Hispanic Technology Executive Council and a Doctor of Management fellow at Case Western Reserve University where his research focuses on AI enabled transformation and the design of future ready organizations.

(01:14) His work explores how leaders navigate change with resilience while building adaptability, agility, and organizational foresight. Omar also serves on the board of directors for the ODN network where he leads professional development to support the growth, impact and global reach of OD and he's an advisory member of the USC center for effective organizations, a globally recognized research center advancing the science and practice of organization design and effectiveness.

(01:39) In addition, he sits on the advisory board for the masters of leadership and organizational change at Case Western Reserve University and he holds an MSE in OD from Pepperdine University as well. So Omar, we know how busy you are. So thank you so much for making time for us today. We're delighted to have you with us just to kick us off.

(02:03) So Garren gave a whistle stop tour of everything you're doing, which is there's a lot there. So can you just expand a bit more on the work you're doing right now and bring that to life for us a little bit? >> Absolutely. So in my day job I lead organization development for Microsoft and there are a handful of priorities for my team.

(02:22) The first is around organization design and operating model work. The second is around teaming for high performance or team effectiveness and the third is around change agility or large scale change. In addition to that, we're focused on OD skilling and the the priority is how do we continue to diffuse organization development capability across human resources and other disciplines across the company.

(02:52) And the focus there is as an HR business partner, if I'm out having conversations with the leaders that I support, how do we ensure that we have common language and methods so that we're able to do the work with a bit more precision and fidelity? Outside of Microsoft, I'm involved in a variety of different organizations that are really enabling me to bring that outside in perspective to the work that I do at Microsoft.

(03:17) So by aligning myself to research organizations and educational institutions, it allows me to ensure that what's happening in the space of research can be translated as cutting edge ideas for innovation and experimentation internally at Microsoft. >> And so you're operating as an internal OD practitioner which brings its own unique challenges and opportunities I guess versus being an external consultant.

(03:42) Can you say more about what say more about that lens on your work? Yeah, I'd say, you know, as an internal OD leader leading a center of excellence, the focus uh can take on a variety of different shades, right? That may look different than that of an external consultant. As an external consultant, you may enter an organization with a problem statement that's being presented and the focus is using data to make sense of the opportunity and then partner with leaders in that organization to really think about thoughtful interventions that you can develop in order to move

(04:23) the needle in the area that you've diagnosed. Simply put, I think internally there's a bit more complexity in the way that we think about the work because in our context there's the role of the organization development center of excellence and then there's the role of the HR business partner and the way that our operating model is set up.

(04:42) Our HR business partners are in the trenches with our leaders doing the in business blocking and tackling. So they are doing a lot of OD work and as we think about our work and our partnership with the HR business partners not only is it focused on enablement so that they have the resources that they need to do the work that they're leading with their business partners but then also depending on the altitude or the complexity of the work then we can step in as needed as internal consultants to help with org design or with leadership team

(05:15) performance engagements largecale change and transformation. And so I I would net that out by saying that there's a bit more breadth and adaptability that I think is needed in my context because I need to follow the puck based on the direction that we're headed both as a company and as an HR profession. >> A lot of people listening will be working in relatively small OD teams.

(05:40) So they'll be really interested in and what lessons and ideas you've got for helping organizations scale organization development's impact across across organizations. >> Yeah. No, that's a that's a great question and it's a really relevant one for us at Microsoft and and quite frankly based on my experience in the past.

(05:59) Let me start with Proctor and Gamble. When I was at Proctor and Gamble, there was a small OD center of excellence. And one of the areas of focus of that central team was to diffuse OD capability through multiple avenues, but the two primary ones that I'll focus on are there's a program called methods into business action and that was for HR business partners.

(06:19) And they shared Galbreth Star, you know, the the different versions of change models, you know, the org design approaches, strategy, all of that, right? And so as an HR business partner community, you were indoctrinated in thinking about HR work through this lens, right? Business, HR enabled strategy informs your org design or design and informs priorities related to team effectiveness, change management, etc.

(06:50) In addition to that, they invested in similar capability within the GM and above college. And the value there is that the leaders that HR business partners were supporting had similar language. So with that shared language, we were able to increase our pace and decrease time to value because again they had fluency in these levers and viewed them as part of their role as business leaders to drive their business forward.

(07:21) Similarly at Microsoft and in that example to net it out the scale motion was small OD center of excellence but diffusing the capability and the role of HRBP and leaders. Similarly at Microsoft I'm taking a similar approach in diffusing OD capability across the role of HRBP and it's been happening for some time right our HR business partners have capabilities in OD the value of the work that we're doing is we're providing common language common methods so that again we have a more precise way of approaching the work because when you think about it leadership team

(07:54) effectiveness culture or design those are really dense and complex topics Right. So the intent so the the value of the method is we're providing language to describe the thing. So the the sooner you're able to articulate what the problem is because you have a framework that provides you common language, the easier it is to shift in from diagnosing into interventions.

(08:21) And so again to your question around how we think about scale, it's partnering with HR business partners through the OD enablement work. And then we also have a track within our partner leader development experience that's focused on strategy or design and change management. In addition to that in our current era of AI, we're also developing a Gentic solutions.

(08:43) So we have a couple of agents that we've developed uh one is is focused on kind of cross HR capability. So, we took all of the skilling material from the experience that I just mentioned and created an agent so that our HR business partners while they're in the trenches doing this work with their leaders actually have that sideby-side support of an agent.

(09:05) We've also recently developed another agent that's focused on diagnostics. And so when we and OD say sometimes you you need to slow down in order to speed up, the focus there is ensure that you're taking the time to properly diagnose so that you're not developing an intervention based on the presenting problem but actually getting to the root.

(09:26) With this diagnostic agent, you're able to decrease the amount of time that it takes you to get to the root cause in order to move to intervention. So skilling and agentic solutions through the role of HR business partner. It's great to have the models and the tools and the methods. It's then knowing which ones to deploy when and how how do you support people to work through that? >> What I'd offer is that for each of these different topics, there's a methodology that we share.

(09:53) As we know, no model is perfect. And when you're in the work as an HR business partner, and I'll speak from my own experience, I'm not worried about a model or a framework, right? For me, it helps because it helps me synthesize complexity and make sense of the work that I'm going after. But when I'm doing the work with leaders, they don't care what methodology or tool I'm using to expedite my path to delivering value or delivering impact.

(10:17) And so what I would offer is that at times it's less about the model that you're using and more about focusing on the business challenge that you're uh tackling and pulling from a variety of different tools or modalities to support the leader, the leadership team and the business that you're aligned to. >> Yeah.

(10:38) And you you said the phrase sort of skating to where the puck will be. And the more embedded an HR business partner is obviously the more sort of demands they'll have placed on them. It's easy to be reactive isn't it? How do you support them to take a more strategic position or to make sure that their actions are informed by the strategy? One of the observations that I have from my time at Proctor and Gamble and even now at Microsoft is that an HR business partners ability to protect the capacity needed to do some of this work is in part informed by the HR operating

(11:13) model or the HR call it service delivery funnel. And in our context we have self-s serve employee self-s serve. We have what we call ask HR. We have the role of an HR consultant. We have the role of the HR business partner. And then we also have global employee relations. So when you think about all of those different roles, there are different aspects of uh of the employee experience and of the HR uh rhythm of business, if you will, that are covered by these different rules.

(11:48) So by providing a an HR operating model that breaks up the work in this fashion, it does allow the HR business partner to focus on at least in our context talent management, organization development and diversity and inclusion. >> Yeah, it's fascinating and you talked about the sort of agentic OD support which is in a way it's great because it's just in time support, isn't it? You don't have to take a ticket and wait that support is there.

(12:16) How has that sort of adoption been taken on? Like has it been sort of used in surprising ways to support people? >> We're still experimenting and I think in in this context of the era of AI, experimentation is the name of the game and as we rolled it out, we continue to have focus groups to understand what are the use cases that are most important to folks within the HR business partner community.

(12:41) We're solving for OD related use cases, but there are partners in our HR business um intelligence team that are also developing agentic solutions that are intended to provide HR business partners the data that they need access to in order to make u informed decisions more quickly. Uh there's one agentic solution uh that a peer is working on that's called know your team and it's providing HR business partner data about their team whether it spans of control or dep related to or pyramid or other pieces of information that enable them again to make the decisions that they

(13:17) need to make in terms of the adoption again we're experimenting we are having conversations to figure out what the needs are of the HR business partner what the use cases are and then using that to help continue to fuel engagement. Um, what I would offer is that the way that HR business partners are engaging with the solutions and the feedback that they're providing us is that it is decreasing time to value, right? Because instead of them having to go off and search for interventions or to have a thought partner um in a

(13:48) consultant, they can actually go into the Adventic solution and ask those questions and receive feedback real time. The other thing that I'd offer is that beyond the solutions that we're building internally, you know, we have co-pilot, right? And so what I would offer users that are listening to this is take your questions related to organization development and all of the topics that fall under that umbrella like organization design, team effectiveness, change management, culture, and leverage Microsoft C-pilot

(14:17) to navigate the way that you're doing that work. I'm going to ask one question and and Microsoft might be slightly different but some of the organizations we're talking there's some fear around AI and using agentic solutions. What advice have you got to people working in an environment where there is some fear or skepticism around AI and agentic solutions that >> Yeah, what I would offer is understanding where that fear is coming from, understanding why you may be resisting the use of the technology and then using that as an

(14:49) opportunity to reframe the value that an Agentic solution may offer you in the flow of the work that you're doing. And it may be even beyond the work that you're doing at work. It may be tasks that you're sorting in your personal life. And get curious about how these agentic solutions can enable you to become more efficient or effective in the work that you're doing and experiment.

(15:15) Take small steps based on your level of comfort uh to explore how Copilot and other aentic solutions can enable you. >> Hi, we're just pausing this interview for a moment. Have you ever finished an episode of the org dev podcast and wish you had a cheat sheet that summarizes all of the key points? Us too, so we made one.

(15:35) It's called from pod to practice. And each week on our newsletter will share a two-page summary of the latest org dev episode. And it includes key takeaways, a reflection prompt, and one small action you can try. >> And it's all in a digital format with space at the end to add your own notes and reflections. And it's designed to help you take the learning from the podcast into your day-to-day work.

(15:54) So to get your copy, just sign up to our next step to better newsletter. The links in the show notes or you can visit our website at www.distinction.live to get the latest from pod to practice in your inbox and let us know what you think. We'd love to get your feedback. Omar, you've had a fascinating career today and you've worked with some really interesting companies.

(16:11) What has been your journey into organization development? >> So the foundation of my career in human resources is as an HR business partner. So my experience at Proctor and Gamble was an HR business partnership. supporting brands like Dawn, Cascade, Swiffer, Mr. Clean. I then moved into another role within the HR business partner space focusing on sales for what we called PNG Prestige, Dolce, Gabbana, Gucci, uh, cosmetics, fragrances, Frederick FAI, which was really interesting, right? When you think about the contrast of the first set of brands

(16:47) and we were selling into Walmart and Costco versus the second set of brands and we were selling into Burgdorf and Neiman Marcus. So quite a quite a different experience and then I moved into the HR for HR space and at the time we were focused on HR 2015 and really reimagining what are the capabilities that the future HR leaders at Proctor and Gamble need.

(17:11) continued down the path of HR business partnership when I joined DirecTV before the AT&T acquisition and I was supporting original content and production and the legal organization and what we call sea corporate and external affairs and in that capacity I was helping think through how we translate our business strategy into our organizational design choices at the time and preparing for the reverse integration of the content business with AT&T and after that I joined Microsoft.

(17:45) Right? So the the the first 10 years of my career were really focused on HR business partnership. But again going back to the experience that I shared about how Proctor and Gamble indoctrinated HR business partners through these methods. I already applied an OD lens to the work that I was doing. I didn't know that it was called OD.

(18:04) And for many HR business partners that's the case. You may not necessarily call it a technical term, but you're doing the work more naturally and fluidly. And so when I moved to Microsoft, part of what surfaced in the interview process was that OD foundation that I was applying to the work that I was doing.

(18:24) And the first role that I was in was focused on talent management and OD for Microsoft and Silicon Valley. And the hiring manager uh at the time was really focused on bringing someone in that had experience as an HR business partner because she wanted someone that could speak the language and that had credibility and understood how to actually uh develop an integrated talent management infrastructure for the region along with leveraging OD in OD mindset and tool set to approach the work.

(18:54) And so that's when I moved over to Microsoft and it's been 10 years. Um actually in the next couple of days on the 28th I celebrate 10 years at Microsoft. And so my first couple of roles were focused on talent management, OD, strategic workforce planning. Uh and it's interesting because the way that we approach strategic workforce planning, it's almost that convergence between OD and talent management as an internal consultant.

(19:21) From there, I worked on this really neat body of work that was focused on a product to help with internal mobility and developing connections with folks across the company. Uh, at the time it was called HO Plus. It's now um evolved and it's called my careerhub. The team that's working on that has done a fabulous job to mature the the framework and scale it.

(19:46) And after that project or that role I then went to work at GitHub and in my first role I was focused on HR business partnership for the corporate groups and in addition to that I was the OD partner with the chief HR officer and we were focused on the evolution of the HR operating model at GitHub and went through that um experience of evolving the operating model.

(20:08) We worked on international expansion with the office of the COO. Uh did a lot of really great work there. And then during the murder of George Floyd, there was this inflection point for the company to really think about all right, how are we going to support ourselves in this moment and I stepped into a role focused on the DNI learning journey.

(20:31) uh which then marked a transition into leading OD for GitHub and in the role I focused on high performance culture, team effectiveness and uh org design for the revenue organization and that was part of their operating model transformation. I then ended up transitioning into the role of the of head of HR business partnership for the revenue business.

(20:57) And you know, one of my proudest moments in that experience was that we were in the middle of transforming the way that we thought about the revenue business at GitHub. And w with the shift in strategy, there was a conversation that surfaced around how do we accelerate our path to a billion in annual reoccurring revenue.

(21:22) And for me, the org design was one of the key levers, right? to think about what is our partnership with Microsoft given that GitHub had uh primarily played in the small and medium business space and Microsoft has been well established in the enterprise space and through some experiments what we learned is that a significant amount of revenue was coming through the Microsoft co-ell motion and so if we wanted to accelerate our path to a billion what are the choices that we needed to make from an orb design standpoint to accelerate that so we invested in a a

(21:53) leadership role focused on Microsoft co-ell. We reorganized the sales organization to align to the structure of the Microsoft sales organization to help create ease and fluidity in the partnership. And within a year, within one year, the revenue business reached that goal of a billion in annual reoccurring revenue.

(22:16) And while it's not all attributed to the shift in org structure, in large part, the choices that we made around redesigning the operating model accelerated our path there. And so that's a bit about my background from HR business partnership into into OD. And then after that role at GitHub, I rejoined Microsoft, the parent company, and I'm now leading organization development.

(22:41) >> So you've touched on so many interesting things there, haven't you? Um, and one of the things you sort of centered on was also operating model. It's a it's an interesting term, isn't it? Because so there's many definitions that exist for it. But I guess when you're thinking about an operating model, what are some of the sort of the key principles that you like to apply to do the work? I'd start with the way that I bottom line the definition around operating model is how do we operationalize the strategy recognizing that there are a variety of

(23:10) different levers that we can actually tug on to get there but what is the strategy what are the organizational capabilities that we need to deliver on that strategy what are some of the choices that we need to make related to the design criteria as we think about the way that we want to operate and you meet the needs of our consumers.

(23:30) What is that model? And then from there, you start to think about the different components of the Galbreth star um which are focused on org design, right? And the one point that I'd make there is that a lot of people lead with structure and arguably you can make changes to your rewards and recognition to management processes to the way that you think about your leader and your leadership team configuration.

(23:55) and some of those other levers can lead to the changes that you'd like to to to to reach without necessarily touching structure. So, just wanted to share that as a bit of an aside because a lot of times when we talk about org design, people lead with uh structure. Uh but all of this work is really intended to drive organizational performance and looking at the business outcomes that we are driving.

(24:19) And so my first principle is really focused on anchor against strategy. Second, define the organizational capabilities that you need to deliver on in order to achieve that strategy. Third, develop design criteria to ensure that you're taking a methodical approach to get from where you are to where you'd like to be. When you start, third principle, when you start to think about the different elements of org design, yes, structure is a lever, but think about other choices that you can make related to management processes, rewards and recognition, etc. to drive the

(24:55) information flow decision layering to get to the outcome that you want. And then the last principle that I'd offer is ensure that all of this acrru to the performance outcomes that you want and don't lose line of sight of culture as one of those business outcomes. And I'd say that the last principle that I'd offer is that no operating model or setup or design changes is complete.

(25:20) And so how do you remain especially in the context of this era of AI with the constant change and the velocity that we're moving at? How do we remain vigilant right in the spirit of continuous improvement so that we're understanding by continuously monitoring which aspects of the operating model are going well versus which aspects of the operating model may require refinement after the first set of changes.

(25:45) That's a a really lovely answer. And if anyone's watching this and is cure about operating models, just rewind this last section and play it back again because it's a great answer to it. So, really quick, what I would offer is there's a there's a visual that Bane offers and it's Bane's operating model bridge. I think it does a really great job of illustrating what I just articulated in a really pathy way.

(26:10) So for those that are interested in actually seeing how all of that comes together, take a look at the Bane operating model bridge. >> Fabulous. We'll make sure there's a link for that in the show notes. Um, and I guess one question I had that you had there is it's it's a really important piece of work, but you have to take people on the journey, don't you? Because people will be making differences to the micro in their work and having to make some difficult choices and also for them to make time for this as well. How do you take people

(26:34) on that journey in terms of like a getting the information that you need to make those operating model changes but also taking the people whose work will change as a result of this so that they understand the why and what's required as well. When going through operating model transformation, I think it's really important to ensure that you have a group of individuals that represent one your business leader, two your HR business partner.

(27:02) If you have an organization development consultant, internal or external, bring them along. Also, finance and strategy. And if the leader has a chief of staff, they're usually involved also. And I the reason why I would include them is because they all represent different uh components that need to be accounted for when starting to make choices especially during the front end of the process when you're doing a lot of external environmental scanning to understand threats and you know what your competitors are doing because a lot of

(27:32) that input will shape the direction that you had. In addition to that, you know, you may actually start your operating model transformation focused on the business outcomes that you want to drive toward. And that's where the role of finance is really important because if you use that as an anchor, the choices that you may make look very different.

(27:50) In terms of how you bring people along in that journey, I'd say that you have to be really thoughtful at which point you bring who along because while you're going through the process of sorting this out, you don't want to prematurely bring people along in a journey when you don't have the clarity that's needed in order to engage them in a meaningful conversation about the implications for them.

(28:13) So instead of creating clarity, you're actually creating confusion and fear because we you haven't landed the outcome and the implications for them. So I think timing is really important in sequencing but I do think that it's important to bring leaders in the organization, managers in the organization along in the journey because they are closest to the work and especially in the context of this era of AI where we're talking about process and workflow re-engineering.

(28:38) It's really important to pull from some of those principles from GMBA um and what's been done in manufacturing environments where you're getting the folks that are closest to the work involved in the conversation so that they can help inform some of the choices that are being made. But you do that thoughtfully um and include them in the process to help inform some of those choices.

(28:59) And then you also want to be thoughtful about the change management approach that you take so that you're providing folks awareness at the right time. You're sharing the burning platform why you're making these changes. You let them know what the desired end state is, right? You paint the picture for what the outcome would look like.

(29:18) You create buyin, right? And once you have buyin from folks as they understand what the changes are, how do you develop change champions that are going to help you evangelize the different changes that are being made so that you can enable and educate folks along in this journey so that they're equipped and are able to uh begin to adapt this new way of working and operating.

(29:40) And again that last step is extremely important to continue to monitor and listen to see how things are landing and ensuring that leaders are very uh present and involved in the process and visible right answering questions addressing the why so that people understand the relationship between the strategic direction that you're headed the choices that are being made the implications for them and what's being done to support them and enable them in that journey.

(30:08) One of the things you mentioned up front is kind of your role as part of the organization development network. You're on the board of that. Why do you think professional networks and those communities are so important for for folks who work in OD? >> I'll start with my why being in this privileged position of collecting all these experiences from companies like Proctor and Gamble and Direct TV and Microsoft going through the MSOD program at Pepperdine.

(30:37) There's a lot of context, really rich context that I've developed through the these experiences around how to approach OD work through the lens of an HR business partner so that it is practical and focused on impact. And it's important for me to then take what I gathered and those experiences and synthesize it and then share it back out and diffuse it so that folks have this way of viewing and approaching their work.

(31:08) And so my why with the role that I'm in with the OD network focused on the professional development pillar is being able to share back and contribute to the development of the next wave of OD talent. Within the professional development pillar, we focus on, you know, a variety of different experiences from an entrepreneurship series for folks that are external consultants.

(31:31) Uh we have a series focused on understanding the foundational aspects of OD. We have another series that's focused on our OD competency model and we also have a webinar series that covers a variety of different topics. But all of that all of that all of that is focused on diffusion of thought leadership and feeding back into the OD community.

(31:55) Now, why I think that's important, one, for the reason that I just shared, but for others, it's an opportunity for you to hear from thought leaders that come from a variety of different backgrounds and experiences. So, in the context of the professional development pillar, we have folks that are working internal, folks that are working external, we have folks that focus on culture, change management, org design, and folks that are doing full staff OD work.

(32:21) So being able to tap into these diverse voices also helps enrich the way that we might begin to think about our own school of thought for OD. >> And what's particularly interesting you in the field of OD at the moment? What's drawing your attention? >> I think what's particularly interesting for me right now is the role that OD is playing when it comes to workforce transformation in the context of AI and the future of work is shifting right in front of our eyes, right? where it's less about the future and it it's happening now. How are we thinking about

(32:51) the integration of AI and what are the implications as we think about work that becomes automated or augmented? You know, what does that mean for the definition of roles or jobs as we know them today when you're able to integrate AI into your workflow, right? What does that mean for the deconstruction of roles into internal consulting gigs where you're able to again work on a variety of different projects at more pace and tempo? And so that for me is a really fascinating space for OD right now.

(33:24) >> So Omar, what what do you enjoy most about your role? What I enjoy most about my role is that in order for me to be effective leading OD, I have to keep a pulse on what's happening in industry. And I think having one foot in the academic research space to understand what Pepperdine is doing when it comes to OD, USC is doing, Case Western Reserve is doing, and then being able to translate that back into the way that we're thinking about our practice areas at Microsoft and continuing to experiment with cutting edge approaches

(34:01) to organization development. That for me is extremely energizing. And then the inverse is also true. being able to take the practical approaches that we're taking to diffusing OD capability and enabling the role of HRBP and even our approach around OD and being able to reflect that back to in the conversations that I'm having on the advisory board at USC and on the advisory board for the MLOCK program at Case Western Reserve like that that practitioner scholar um balance for me is quite energizing >> and what what you find most challenging?

(34:38) >> What I find most challenging is following the puck, right? Because there's so much change. There's quite a bit of complexity in the way that we're approaching our work and how do we stay relevant and how do we ensure that we are providing value to the business? I think that continues to be one of the primary areas of focus.

(35:01) >> Omar, um, what's some of the biggest lessons you've learned along the way that you'd love to share? Yeah, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned along the way is not being precious about a model, a framework, a tool, a methodology, because it's less about any of that and it's more about the outcome that you're driving toward and the the tools that you use to get there depending on the business or the leader that you're working with don't matter.

(35:26) So, I think it's that like being not being precious around methodology. The second point that I would make is the partnership with the role of HR business partner is so critical especially given the relationship that they have as embedded partners working directly with the leader and the leadership team and that's why the diffusion of OD skill set mindset tool set is so critical.

(35:53) The third lesson that I would highlight is OD work sits all over in a variety of different roles. You'll see some of the work sitting in the role of HR business partner. You'll see it sitting in strategy and planning. You'll see some of it in the role of chief of staff. You'll see some of the work happening within the role of business leaders themselves.

(36:14) And so part of it is being really thoughtful about how you engage and activate the system in a holistic and integrated way to drive toward the outcomes recognizing that again different aspects of the work may sit in different roles. One question we always like to ask is is how you invest in your own learning and development. You've obviously got a lot on your plate, but what does what's that look like for you? >> Yeah, I I would say that I go back to the adult learning model of 702010, right? And 70% of what we learned is in the flow of work. And so how do we

(36:43) continue to invest in developing business acumen, understanding the business that we're supporting and translating those what we've learned and what those needs are into interventions that we're able to implement to help them move the needle. So I'd say learning in the flow of work is number one.

(37:03) Second, staying connected to top research journals that translate research into practical practical considerations and those may be, you know, McKenzie or HBR as an example. Um, and then staying connected with these research organizations such as the USC Center for Effective Organizations is another really great outlet to connect with a community of folks that are actively doing this work to bring that outside in perspective.

(37:31) but then also other organizations like the OD network uh staying connected through the alumni community at Pepperdine in the MSOD program and then also in the conversations at Case Western Reserve University related to how they're thinking about organizational behavior, the future of AI and the implications on work. >> This is an optional question.

(37:52) Is there a particular book or podcast that you'd like to recommend other people follow? >> There are a few recommendations that I have. One, I really love the podcast with Cara Swisser and Scott Galloway, which is titled Pivot, and they're focused on tech, and it helps me stay current on the environment and what's happening surrounding the industry.

(38:16) I'd also recommend for folks that are interested in a program focused on OD, I have two that I recommend for obvious reasons. I'm a huge fan of Pepperdine. I went through the MSOD program. The three reasons why that program really stood out for me are the investment in self as instrument in doing the self work so that we're able to be in service of the clients that we support.

(38:39) The global nature of the program because by the time you wrap up the experience you'll have consulted in each region around the world. And the third component is that they quickly pivot from theory into practice so that by the time you wrap up the experience, you have the tools that you need to go off and do the work.

(38:57) The second program that I recommend is the Masters of Leadership and Organizational Change at Case Western Reserve University. That is a 14-month program. It also offers a global immersive experience and you have proximity to some of the world's top thought leaders in the field of organizational behavior and organization development such as Richard Buyatsis a luminary in the space and then also the luminaries at Case Western Reserve as an example are Richard Boyatsis and then also David Cooper writer with the appreciative

(39:32) inquiry work. So Omar, I think a lot of people are going to find this really inspiring. You know, you really are a case study in what is possible. What advice would you give someone who's considering a career in organization development? The first piece of advice is do some research and understand the different programs that are available to you.

(39:52) whether it's Pepperdine, Case Western Reserve University, you know, tapping into the organization development network just to get a sense of what the work actually looks like because what I've gathered is folks in the OD field come from manufacturing, operations, strategy, human resources, uh, management, consulting, and so start by understanding what the work is and then based on your interests in a given discipline within organization development, I would recommend doing some project work.

(40:22) >> So, Omar, I want to say a huge thank you. It's been such a fascinating conversation and it's been deeply practical but also really underpinned by brilliant theory as well. So, Danny, what are you taking away from the conversation? >> Yes, it's I think it's been a really rich discussion.

(40:37) I think it's going to a lot of people are going to have really enjoyed understanding your HRBP lens on OD, which is something we've not explored before. So, I think that's really valuable. So, for me, some key takeaways were that importance of anchoring against strategy in everything we do. really having that as one of our anchors.

(40:52) I loved what you you said about diffusing OD capability through both leaders and HRBPS and the importance of creating that similar language to kind of fasttrack that. And then also that reminder about not defaulting to kind of or design or re reshuffleling structure when we're looking at changes. There's lots of other options and colors on the palette.

(41:10) So >> brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. And if I had to add anything because there are so many good things in there is just not being too wedded to certain tools and that it's really about the conversations that you have but also the the thread that's come through all of us is like it's the thing about sort of the really being focused on the organizational outcomes the time to value that you talk about as well and it's something that to be credible we have to keep that foregrounded at all times.

(41:31) So I think people are going to really really enjoy it. Omar if people want to follow your work your writings that you put out there what's the best paper for people to connect with you? Yeah, they can connect with me on LinkedIn, Omar Morales, Omar- Morales on LinkedIn, uh, Microsoft, and you should be able to see my profile.

(41:51) I did want to say thank you, Danny and Garen, for this chance to share. And, you know, the way that you bottom line the conversation was spoton anchoring in strategy. Do not over pivot on models or theory because at the end of the day, all theories are helpful and models are helpful, but they're all flawed.

(42:10) And so pick at them and leverage what's most beneficial again in service of the outcomes that you're driving for the business. >> Wonderful. Thank you. If you are watching this and you think you know someone that would actually find value in this and and we're always so impressed with the number of shares that people have as well.

(42:24) So please do feel free to share this video and interview with others. People find it really really useful. But most importantly, we just want to say a huge thank you for being so generous with your insights and your experience. People are going to really enjoy this episode. So, thank you for making time on a Friday afternoon for us.

(42:38) >> Absolutely. Thank you both. Have a great rest of your day.