10 Tips to Get Started in Organisation Development and Design - OrgDev Podcast Episode 34

10 Pro Tips to Getting Started in Organization Development and Design
Welcome to our latest video where we dive into the essential tips for anyone starting their journey in Organization Development and Design! 🌟

After conducting 33 in-depth interviews with leading practitioners, authors, and academics, Dani and Garin have distilled the top 10 tips that will set you up for success. Whether you're a beginner or looking to refine your skills, these expert insights are invaluable. We've spoken to OD experts from House of Commons, Amazon, Netflix, Intel, Google, Accenture, KPMG and many more. 

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Transcript

Transcript:
(00:00) hi welcome to this special episode of the or Dev podcast so how do you break into the field of organization development and design Danny and I have the privilege of sitting down with 33 accomplished practitioners thinkers authors and academics from some of the most Innovative and influential organizations in the world these include Amazon Netflix the NHS Accenture Intel House of Commons rfy park and many many more so we've sat down we've identified from the interviews the top top 10 tips for getting started in organization
(00:33) development so whether you're an internal HR professional who's Keen to get started and aspiring OD consultant or you're just someone who's passionate about shaping organization culture and Effectiveness these tips are for you our 33 practitioners from the US and Europe have come from a whole range of fields from chemists to journalists to engineers and HR business partners there is no one way to become an OD practitioner but there are some essential principles to follow Danny and I hope you enjoy these tips as much as
(01:01) we've enjoyed interviewing these brilliant people and Danny and I want to take this opportunity to thank all of our guests for being so generous with their time their expertise and their insights and we also want to thank our growing community of subscribers for all your support so far we couldn't do it without you and if you're watching this video and you haven't subscribed then please do because we have a video coming out with a brilliant interview every single week we're already gearing up for
(01:24) season 3 coming out in September and we have some brilliant guests lined up from across the world which I'm sure you'll enjoy so so enjoy the top 10 tips and if you have any comments please leave them in the [Music] chat I would recommend to anyone thinking about getting into OD seek out a change project that is where you will cut your teeth and there are change projects running all the times in organizations so and particularly any change project that requires collaboration with different functions so as soon as you have to knit together
(01:59) different parts of the business it Finance legal HR commercial whatever it is get involved in a project of that nature and keep volunteering for those projects because that will give you really valuable experience about what does and doesn't work in change which is in essence what OD is OD is about promoting a change in the system for the good of the system so that would be the Practical experience that I would say if you're right at the beginning of starting out is is find a change project to volunteer on I think the cipd does a
(02:29) um a foundation certificate or similar in od you probably know better than I Garen but doing something like that to get your formal OD underpinning would be really helpful as well and then hopefully between those two things then you could start to find um different ways um to get in and final top tip is if you are in HR I think there are often change jobs that are in business functions that are given a different name so also consider going for one of those types of jobs to give you a different experience and to really
(03:02) experience the accountability of driving a [Music] change be a lot more patient than I was that's the fundamental advice I think what we're doing in our respective circles is trying to lower the barrier tantry to a very very difficult field if we think about how this field grew in the 60s 70s and 80s there weren't many Master's programs but there were a lot of good people doing good work who you could Apprentice with really with no understanding at all of the field you met them they they liked you and all of
(03:42) a sudden you had a job with a living wage doing the work and you learned on the job and you were taught by people who had been there since the beginning who knew ctlo and that doesn't exist in the way it used to we went in we kind of swung as a field into really codifying this into Master's programs and at least in the United States now a lot of those masters programs are we're losing a lot of that so there's this huge gap where I'm thinking that apprenticeship needs to come back or we need a new model so I
(04:10) would say the best way to grow in this field is to learn from someone who's doing the work and is to do the work as much as you can it's a field where the the unfortunate saying is you need experience to get experience and so the way to get experience is to try it out my first OD gig was calling my University and saying I'm trying this out would you like it for one of some of your student groups and they said sure and I I think it was a total flop but boy did I I learn and have something under my belt that I could talk about it
(04:43) at my first job interview so there's a quality of getting out there and doing it that I think you know don't don't wait for permission but also know that it takes a long time to learn this and that the ways of learning are changing in our field so I think be patient be and be engaged is is the best advice I have I was very impatient I thought I should be I should be able to do this work without even a master's and then I started my masters and I thought what was I [Music] thinking get a mentor find a mentor if
(05:18) you don't have one already um there was a really interesting study I think it was from about 2019 2018 that looked at the impact of mentoring on those starting out in their own D career uh and it found that mentoring had the biggest impact so find a mentor if there's somebody in your organization who's more experienced around OD reach out to them if maybe uh you're a little bit alone in your organization you can reach out to Danny and Garen because they'll be maybe able to introduce you to to all the wonderful
(05:49) people they know so yeah finding a mentor I think go on some kind of training and development so think about all the things you'd like to learn and the best ways for you to learn that so there might be some techniques such as te groups for example or appreciative inquiry where you might want to go on a course there might be other things where it's okay just to read or watch um videos but again a bit like what I was talking about earlier have your own little what I don't know book and just kind of keep a note of
(06:19) that and that's also a really good way of tracking your progress become part of a professional Network so there's all sorts of great OD networks out there and I'd encourage you um to Join one of those if you're not uh joined up to to those already and again a great way to learn a great way to build relationships and we know a really important thing at the heart of good OD is is relationships it's about [Music] people I think first and foremost just be curious that's the biggest thing and
(06:53) apply quite a critical thinking lens you know always ask the question why or or what is this there to serve never be satisfied with the answer you get first time R because inevitably there's an answer that goes behind it um follow your nose in some instances and follow your instincts um because I think a bit to the agile space you know that there are different schools of thought in the OD world and some you will lean to more than others that's not to say the others are wrong by any stretch that's just um
(07:21) a position people take but again from a you know curiosity perspective I think there there was something that definitely resonated when I started I guess particularly um Masters at Ry Park of different schools of thinking which just opens your eyes up to different constructs um and then challenging those constructs because just because someone's written about them doesn't mean they're right per se and I think but all in the context of you know if people are interested in creating great working environments that offer um real value
(07:53) for people in terms of how they see themselves fitting into an organization um how do you create optimal organizations that allow those people to fit in them then I think you know whether OD is formally in your title or not doesn't necessarily matter because a bit like I said I think I was doing that stuff and didn't know until someone told me that there's this field called organization development and I wouldn't let that prohibit you I think it's you know be just be curious uh first and
(08:20) foremost and and it's amazing we're just asking some questions can sometimes lead you [Music] Embrace change I mean it it's it's cliche but it it's the world is is changing at a more rapid and Rapid Pace I don't see that um shifting back uh I think that's the world we're in you know when I got started in the field we talked a lot about change interventions and we talked about structured change strategies and they were like these events and and whatnot and I think how things have shifted over time is that
(08:56) we're in a we're in a situation now where it's more like constant so it's not change an individual change intervention it's not an individual like distinct change event like we're talking about constant change culture fostering constant uh willingness and openness to learning growth and pivoting and shifting and and being agile so um for any change practitioner in this day and age I think you have you you have to approach it that way um to help organizations really stay at the Forefront of of where they
(09:28) need to be uh I think long past are the days where we can just have like our rolling fiveyear plan strategy where we can like go into our Matt map out this two-year intervention and and then like set it in stone and then move forward like that it just doesn't work um it may not have ever worked as well as we thought it did you know 10 20 years ago but it certainly doesn't work now and and so just stay curious continually ask questions um challenge assumptions I I teach my students lots of different theories lots of different models lots
(10:00) of different practices those sorts of things but honestly they're going to forget the vast majority of that stuff what I really want them to come away with is like a comfort a heightened Comfort level with ambiguity complexity and just an innate curiosity if they have those things I think they'll find success uh if they don't have those things no matter how much knowledge they have up in their heads they're probably going to get short circuited at some point in time [Music] so I think having curiosity around the
(10:34) operating system is the main thing so kind of going a level deeper in terms of the frustrations that you are feeling at work or seeing in an organization the kind of surface level stuff of what's going on oh Sally and Bill they don't get along and asking yourself like well what is happening at the OS level that is creating the dynamic where Sally and Bill don't get along or where every meeting feels exactly the same or whatever the tension is that you're you're feeling starting to develop the
(11:09) ability to go a level or two levels or three levels deeper to try to understand what is happening I think is huge for internal uh practitioners for external uh practitioners that's the the the main thing and then the I guess the other kind of more practical thing is that I do think this work requires facilitation skills conversation skills that I think you only really develop unless you're really lucky and you guys are intrinsically good at it you only develop through practice um so learning putting yourself
(11:45) in uh in contexts where you get to practice facilitating practicing holding a uh structure for a group to have a conversation I think that can only help you if you're interested in doing more work uh like this and I think there's probably all sorts of you know external trainings to explore um I've I have never really done one my external training was becoming a teacher in undergrad like once you've gone through student teaching you can like handle any sort of organizational uh environment so
(12:17) I don't know that I would recommend that as the the most direct approach there's probably better ways but it's it's primarily a rep based game just getting those reps um being in that kind of facilitator role is really [Music] valuable I would start with a good old self-reflection and I think and and you know kind of the idea of the use of self and that you as an instrument what it is what is that instrument what is it that you bring and you know want to do and you know where you want to make a
(12:54) difference what's your take on things those are kind of the important things out and what's what's kind of what ticks you what what are the things that you get out of it as well and being kind of clear kind of what is the purpose you're serving when you go into a client system or whether you are going internally sort of what what are the some of the things that you would want to get out of it and clarifying that for yourself I think that's that's where I would I would start the tools and techniques will come
(13:23) being kind of working with yourself first I think is always always important in leader in leadership it's it's a step that it's easy to miss but it's fundamental isn't it yes yes and it's a never ending I mean like I'm probably still you know doing a good old reflection it's it's always there and it's hard work but it's so worth it because I think the clear you are yourself about why you're doing what you're doing and what is this thing that you are doing it's it's just easy and I I find
(13:56) it always saying you know there's tools and techniques but the way you use them depends on who you are and what you think what's your idea what's your belief and so [Music] forth start with as much as you can to develop your own identity and your own sense of self and really getting to understand yourself and then begin to build onto that understanding how are you in other context what are you like in in a hierarchical relationship what are you like in in a team relationship become aware of the role you you play
(14:34) which to get really psychological about this becoming interested in the role you played in your family of origin and how is that role you played in your family of origin beginning to play itself out in the role you now play yourself in at work are you the one who replicates and helps and keeps everybody happy or are you the one who is happy to cause trouble or be the Rebel or whatever it might be that you find yourself en rolls on two stages I guess of of beginning to grow awareness and development that the
(15:01) third stage in this becomes a lifelong job is noticing then where do you find yourself in the wider system what roles are you playing there and what roles are others playing there and we spoken during this dialogue about uh the system forces that can sway you and take you to really discover when is that happening you and how are you caught in it and what you need to do to become detached and step back again I mean that's Master practitioner level stuff but is if someone early on is aware of that those phenomena exist and can start to become
(15:36) curious about them identify them and then do anything that it'll take to develop learning even I remember joining Toast Masters years ago that was a super thing I remember having a voice coach which I thought gosh that's ridiculous why would I have that that was pre-joining uh Fred and Carolyn and I think maybe might have helped get get the job so do whatever it takes to self-develop but not in isolation in the context of of everything else around [Music] us develop a systems thinking perspective whether you want to call it
(16:14) a more holistic view of the organization uh whether you want to think about it just big picture but for me OD is not in the details of a better performance appraisal it's really thinking systemically what are we really trying to drive here in the organization with performance appraisals and how can we do that in a way that doesn't inadvertently actually hinder the very impact that we want to have where people get all tied up and did I get a 3.4 rating or a 3.
(16:43) 42 rating um you you can you can lose the whole the whole thread if you're not careful so really developing a more holistic or systems thinking approach and I guess thinking about don't just organize or streamline the work of the organization how can you have not a 10% impact on the organization but a 10x impact on your organization how can you really help the organization transform or revolutionize or evolve what it does and how it does it can systems thinking be learned or are some people just innate systems thinkers they can just
(17:20) see it or can people actually learn how to be good systems think that's a really good question that I think I need to think about a little bit but I'll give you my offthe cuff answer and then I'm going to probably think about this after this call is over it's a very provocative question I think like with many things whether it be Athletics or a particular field of study some people are going to come to it easier you could even look at whether it's disc or Myers Briggs or something like that and say
(17:50) for example someone has uh a preference for intuition versus sensing in the Myers Briggs world I it's my understanding from Myers Briggs that intuition people with that preference tend to see patterns and tend to think more systemically naturally but I've also over the course of my career met incredibly brilliant OD practitioners that have a clear preference for sensing as well so I guess in my view it can be learned there might be some people that are more naturally predisposed to think and act that way than others but I also
(18:26) would say that I'm really encouraged Ed by two things that I've seen change over the last I would say 10 to 15 years which it used to be when I was talking to organizations about systemic thinking it was usually the seite executives or maybe the head of training or leadership development or something like that that I was having the conversation with and the rest of the organization it was kind of a either irrelevant concept or something of not great interest to them increasingly I've seen more and more
(18:56) people at line leadership levels not just in senior levels really thinking and working systemically and I think people are just getting more attuned to the fact that a lot of things are baked into the systems and our way of doing and and thinking about things and that to really affect complex systems you need to think systemically so I think it's becoming more prevalent and more broad-based I guess I would [Music] say you've got the story of there are no barriers that if it's something that you really want to do you can achieve it in
(19:36) terms of getting where you want career aspirationally what advice would you give someone who's starting out now so maybe someone who is considering a career in od intrigued by systems thinking and building into their practice or or even they might be an HR they might be a social worker they might be a soldier but they're looking at this what what advice would you give to them just starting out I I I think breath so you know read you know I think reading's underrated a lot of time see didn't read
(20:04) his first book to 27 but you know read and research in that area as much as you can and then go find go find a mentor be Reach Out reach out and to don't be afraid to make connections because I think that's when I first came out with the milit I had no Connections in thing my my you know I still look now and think you know my my Network's probably quite Slim but I I would reach out and go go find some good people that you can have a conversation with be curious uh and answer these questions um and don't
(20:38) take don't take everything the sort of binary look look for themes about what's happening uh and then go explore what's what's missing what's the difference and I think that's real key so look look what everyone's saying and find out what's the difference definitely and don't give up beat definitely don't give up yeah yeah and that's true because I remember I still do it now I'm human you know I'll I'll sit there and I'll doubt myself um all the time and I think
(21:06) that's I think that's healthy in a way sometimes you know not doing too much because it keeps you it keeps you on the The Edge and with the edge it gives me that first end to learn and it's I think that's a healthy boundary doubting yourself enough that you still remain curious I don't ever want to be in that position where I think I know it all and and I think that's that's probably a good advice for people that you never know going to know all you don't need to know it all but just keep being curious
(21:32) to to try and think that there's there's something there's some book that's going to give you the answer and then go find the other book that you think is going to give you the answer and that gives you that drive to keep reading and keep exploring different ideas so that's crucial [Music] he [Music]